A Very Candid Conversation with David Rosenthal

David Rosenthal has the gig of a lifetime. Since 1993, he has been the keyboardist in the Billy Joel Band. David has also toured with several other artists including Cyndi Lauper, Robert Palmer, and Enrique Iglesias. 

David had a fast start with his career. Shortly after graduating from renowned Berklee College of Music, a tape of David’s piano recital made its way to guitarist Ritchie Blackmore. Ritchie, who had previously played with Deep Purple, created the rock band Rainbow and invited David for an audition to be the keyboardist. It was during his time with Rainbow (1981 to 1984) that I became familiar with David. I particularly like his keyboard opening of “Can’t Let You Go” (1983), as well as his playing on Rainbow’s concert in Tokyo in 1984.

In 1984, Rainbow dissolved, so David teamed up with Little Steven (aka Steven Van Zandt of the E Street Band and actor on The Sopranos). Shortly after his world tour with Little Steven, he played with Cyndi Lauper and Robert Palmer. After playing with these big names, David formed a melodic rock band called Red Dawn, which included Chuck Burgi who had played with David in Rainbow and future Rainbow member Greg Smith. Red Dawn attracted listeners all around the world with their 1993 album Never Say Surrender. (You can find my interview with Chuck Burgi here.)

In 1993, David landed his gig with Billy Joel. Despite the high-profile gig with the Piano Man, David also toured with Enrique Iglesias (where he would reunite with Chuck Burgi again) and worked with guitar virtuoso Yngwie Malmsteen. David later joined the group Happy the Man for a reunion album and series of concerts when their original keyboardist, Kit Watkins, decided not to participate. 

Since then, David has continued with Billy Joel, including a historic concert at the closing of Shea Stadium as well frequent sold out shows at Madison Square Garden. In addition to his gigs, David has done keyboard rig design and synth programming for various artists such as Bruce Springsteen, Lady Gaga, and Phil Collins.

In this candid conversation, we covered David’s extensive career from Rainbow to Billy Joel. I want to thank David for his time. In addition, a special thanks to David for letting me use photos from his website. 

Jeff Cramer: What prompted your interest in music?

David Rosenthal: I was about seven years old and I asked my parents for a piano. We didn't have one in my house at the time. I have absolutely no idea why, but I was determined to play piano, and I kept pleading with my parents to get one. And finally they did and I started piano lessons. But I don't know where the inspiration came for me to want to play that particular instrument . . . I guess I had some sort of calling to it.

JC: Were you a classically trained pianist?

DR: Yes, I was classically trained but not from the beginning. When I first started playing, I only wanted to learn songs that were on the radio. So I learned how to read sheet music—I learned all the chords, I could read anything, and I learned how to solo. I was already playing in bands by the time I was 12. I started studying some jazz when I was 13. I really got into classical when I was about 14, and I dove in deep. I have a very extensive education, but I didn't start with classical right at the beginning.

JC: I understand you studied at Berklee College of Music. 

DR: Yes. I continued my study there. Berklee is mostly known as a jazz school, but they do have all other types of things there. I studied jazz, classical, synthesis [“synthesis” is the technique of generating sound from a synthesizer], audio recording, and orchestration. It was a great school and I got a really well-rounded education there. 

JC: A tape of you playing a Liszt piece when you were in Berklee made its way to Ritchie Blackmore. His reaction was being a little fearful that you probably wouldn't want to join Rainbow because Rainbow was rock and the tape of you playing was classical. 

DR: Oh, really?

JC: Yeah. Ritchie said, "He's gonna be too good for us," and at the same time, Ritchie wanted a keyboardist who was oriented in rock and classical music. After auditioning several keyboard players that didn’t work out, he finally called you in.

DR: That's funny because the cassette tape that I sent him, which got me the audition, had my classical piano recital from Berklee on one side of the tape. And on the other side was my cover band at that time, which was playing all rock and roll songs.

I assume he listened to both sides of the tape. Maybe he didn't, I don't know. In any event, the tape got me the audition with Ritchie. But that’s interesting, I've never heard that side of the story before.

It's funny because I totally have rock and roll running through my veins. I grew up on rock and roll and I love it. It sounds like a cliché but it's true. I studied classical because I wanted to become the best player I could possibly become and I wanted to take my playing to a point of virtuosity. But I never had any intention of making a career as a classical pianist. However, my teachers at Berklee were suggesting that I become a classical pianist. I was like, "No way. That's not at all what I want to do." I just wanted to elevate my playing up to that high level. 

JC: I have interviewed several people who played with Ritchie and one thing just about everyone tells me is that they have a story about Ritchie. What's your Ritchie story?

DR: I endured some of the traditional initiation things that he does to all new Rainbow members. But I had a great relationship with Ritchie. He really respected my musicianship and I had tremendous respect for him and we got along great. I know a lot of people didn't have similar stories to that, but I always got along fine with Ritchie. Yeah, he's a prankster—he does his pranks and everything—but when it came time for the music, we really clicked on a lot of levels I think, musically.

JC: I can hear the chemistry between you two when I listen to Rainbow. I particularly like the keyboard opening you do for “Can't Let You Go.”

Rainbow (Dave in middle) (1984)

DR: Yeah. That was actually improvised on a pipe organ sound that I played on an Emulator. Ritchie and I both loved that sound. We wanted to do something with it, and he asked me to create an intro like something reminiscent of Bach's Toccata in D minor, a piece which we both love. But it needed to be something that would work well for “Can't Let You Go,” and that’s what I came up with. [Click here to hear “Can’t Let You Go.”]

JC: One of the most memorable times in Rainbow was when the band did “Difficult to Cure” [a rock instrumental of Beethoven’s Ninth] with the Japanese orchestra. What are your memories on that?

DR: Oh yeah, that whole experience was a lot of fun. I did all the orchestration for the live performance of “Difficult to Cure.” We got to Japan and rehearsed with the orchestra. We were doing two shows at the Budokan and both the shows were sold out, so we didn't need to announce the orchestra in order to sell the shows. We did it unannounced; it was really a surprise to everybody. 

And all of a sudden at one point in the show, we started the beginning of “Difficult to Cure” and it gets to that big chord . . . we're all holding out the chord and suddenly there's a curtain that opens behind us and there's an entire orchestra lit in rainbow colors. The whole audience gasped and went, "Whoa." On the live album you can hear the crowd doing that. And then we launched into the song with the orchestra playing along with the band.  In the middle of the song the band stopped and the orchestra played an excerpt from Beethoven’s 9th. The whole thing was really cool. [To hear “Difficult to Cure” with the Japanese orchestra, click here.]

JC: Who did you play with after Rainbow?

DR: After Rainbow was Little Steven. I did a world tour with Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul in ’84. 

David (top right) in Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul (1984) 

JC: And how did that come about?

DR: Well, Rainbow had come to an end because Ritchie decided to put Deep Purple back together to do a reunion. So I was looking around to see what might be out there for something I could get involved in next. I crossed paths with Steven Van Zandt, and he invited me to do the tour with him. So that's how that went. [To hear Little Steven’s cover of Black Uhuru’s “Solidarity,” click here.]

JC: And then I know you worked with Cyndi Lauper. 

DR: Yes. That came a couple years later. After Steven's tour ended, I produced an album for a band called Hammerhead in Germany for EMI Records. I was writing a lot of music and put together my own band called Infinity. Some of the songs from my Infinity days made their way into the group I later formed, Red Dawn.  But in those early years I was working with singer Mitch Malloy and writing songs for Infinity. Then I got the gig with Cyndi Lauper on the True Colors tour. That was 1986 to 1987. [To hear a 1986 live performance of “Time After Time,” click here.]

David (far left) in Cyndi Lauper’s band (1986)

JC: Okay. What's interesting is going from Rainbow, then Little Steven, and now Cyndi Lauper. All three acts are different musically.

DR: Yeah, well . . . they're completely different. But I have a lot of musical styles that I'm very comfortable with. I love pop music just as much as I love rock and hard rock. And there’s lots of keyboard parts in Cyndi’s music. The band was great—it was all top-notch musicians. She was at the peak of her career at that time, so yeah, it was kind of cool. Yes, it was completely different, but why not?

JC: And then  you also worked with Robert Palmer.

                David (left) and Robert Palmer (1988)

DR: Yeah. I did the Heavy Nova tour with him. That was also a great tour with great musicians. We are actually in The Guinness Book of World Records for that tour. On one leg of the tour we did 56 shows in a row in 56 cities in 56 nights. It was pretty crazy. [To watch a video single of “Early in the Morning,” click here.] 

JC: Now to the group Red Dawn you mention earlier . . . when I had interviewed Chuck Burgi about Red Dawn, he had said you were the musical leader of this band. How did the whole Red Dawn project get started?

DR: Right . . ., I had been looking for a deal for quite some time for my previous group Infinity, but we weren't able to get a deal at that time, so everybody went in their own direction. I eventually ended up getting a deal in Japan to do the Infinity record, but Infinity no longer existed at that point.  The label was fine with that, and they said, "Just put together a new band." I said, "Okay." And so I signed the deal in Japan with EMI-Toshiba and I put together a really, really amazing band which became Red Dawn. I asked Chuck if he would be willing to do it. I didn't even know if he was available or if he would consider it, but he was really enthused about it and he was a great addition to the band. 

There was Greg Smith on bass who also went on to play with Rainbow in the nineties. Greg's an awesome bass player and a great guy. That was the first time Greg and Chuck had met, and right from the first day when the two of them played together it was magic instantly. I knew immediately that was the rhythm section I wanted. 

I had worked on some other projects with Tristan Avakian, a great guitar player from New York; he was my first choice for guitar. Larry Baud was the last piece of the puzzle to put into Red Dawn. He was just a tremendous singer. I just think the band was great, and I'm very proud of the album we made Never Say Surrender. [To hear a live acoustic version of “I’ll Be There” in Japan with David on keyboards and Larry on vocals, please click here.]

JC: When I interviewed Greg Smith about Red Dawn, he told me he was in a foreign country—I forget which one—when he was asked to autograph a Red Dawn CD. 

David (far left) in Red Dawn (1992)

DR: Yeah, we have quite a following around the world. Never Say Surrender made a lot of noise over time. It’s a shame that it didn't really do well when it was first released because maybe then we would've had a different trajectory than we did. But the record was very highly critically acclaimed, and it was loved by a lot of AOR fans all over the world. [“AOR” stands for “album-oriented rock” focusing on album tracks by rock artists. AOR evolved from hard rock and progressive rock.]

JC: So after that, I understand you met Billy Joel. How did that gig land?

DR: I heard that Billy was looking for a keyboard player. You know, I was at that point in my career when my name popped up in those circles when somebody was looking for a keyboard player. So I was invited for a closed audition and I beat the other guy out. I got the gig and I started on the River of Dreams tour in 1993. [To hear “Pressure” from the River of Dreams tour, click here.]

The Piano Man and David (right) (1993)

JC: I've watched some videos of Billy's early shows and there was only him on piano and keyboards. Were you the first keyboard player to have played alongside with Billy Joel? 

DR: No, I wasn’t. It was Billy on all keyboards in the early days. Sometimes he would play piano and then he would jump to a Minimoog [a Minimoog is a type of keyboard] and a couple of other keyboards. And sometimes some of his other bandmates would double on keyboards. But he did have a keyboard player through the eighties on some of his tours. Dave Lebolt was first, and then Jeff Jacobs did the Storm Front tour and then I started on the River of Dreams tour. But yeah, it’s been 27 years that I’m with him now, by far the longest of any keyboard player that he's had.

JC: One thing I've heard about Billy live is that even his own band doesn’t know what songs he’ll be playing in concert.

DR: Well, we do have a set list, but he will sometimes veer off it or he'll throw a song in spontaneously or just start playing something. Sometimes he'll play a song that we haven't done in a long time, and sometimes he'll even play a song that we never did before and we just go for it. So it's a lot of fun. Everybody in the band is a phenomenal musician, but it keeps us on our toes and it's really great because we never know what he's gonna do next. As a result of that, no two shows come out the same, and that makes it a lot of fun. 

I think the audience really picks up on that and they love it too because they can see that we're really up there playing and we're just going for it. The audience loves that and they appreciate the spontaneity of what we're doing as well. That’s a big part of what Billy does, and it takes a unique group of players to be able to do that. I think we have a really unique chemistry within Billy's band—it's really a unique band. 

JC: What's your keyboard setup for playing with Billy?

DR: Well, all the keyboards that I’m using on stage are MIDI controllers [a MIDI (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) controller is any hardware keyboard that transmits MIDI data to devices to trigger sounds and control parameters of an electronic music performance], and I'm running MainStage [a music application by Apple which is designed for use in live performance]. All the sound sources are coming from a computer, but because computers can crash, I have a second computer system running simultaneously at all times should that ever happen.

JC: I understand that you've done some keyboard rig programming for other artists like Bruce Springsteen.

DR: Yeah. Since programming is a big part of what I do, over the years not only have I done it for myself but I've also done it for several other keyboard players and some big artists. They bring me in to program their setups, design keyboard rigs, things like that. I'm always pushing the envelope of technology and I love it. I’ve had a lot of experience with redesigning my own rigs over the years, so I have been called to do some of that for other artists as well. 

JC: I want to talk about some of the other artists you played with after you initially played with Billy. First, let's talk about guitar legend Yngwie Malmsteen.

DR: Right. Well, I played on a couple of tracks for Yngwie’s Inspiration album. When we were working on that album, he started telling me about his concerto that he was writing, so he brought me aboard as the orchestrator for his concerto. It was a big, big project. We first recorded his Millenium Concerto Suite in Prague with the Czech Philharmonic in 1997, and then we recorded it again in Japan live with the New Japan Philharmonic. I think that was 2001. [To hear Yngwie and the orchestra’s “Icarus Dream Fanfare,”  click here.]

David (right) and Yngwie Malmsteen

JC: Well, I've noticed throughout your career you got to play with a lot of guitar greats.

DR: Yes, I've been fortunate to play with a lot of great guitar players maybe in part because I have a deep understanding of guitar. In high school I played guitar as well as keyboards. When my band played a song that didn’t have keyboards in it, I would just play guitar. But I kind of gave guitar up when I met Steve Vai because he and I played in a band together at Berklee. When I saw how he played guitar, I thought, "You know what? I'm gonna put this instrument down and just do what I do best" [laughs] and that was keyboards. 

So even though I don't play guitar professionally as part of my career, I do have a deep understanding of the instrument. I think that comes in really handy when I play with a lot of guitar greats like Ritchie, Yngwie, Steve Vai. and many others. I've just been fortunate to play with so many great guitar players over the years, and they all seem to like what I do.

JC: In addition to guitar greats and Billy Joel, you also played with Enrique Iglesias. 

DR: Right, that tour was in 1997. Several of the guys in Billy's band were involved in Enrique’s band. I was playing with Chuck Burgi again. We had played together in Rainbow, then Red Dawn, then Enrique Iglesias, and as you know, Chuck would also end up in Billy's band. [To watch the video for Enrique’s “Solo en ti,” click here.]

David and Enrique on keys (1997)

JC: I understand you were involved in the Movin’ Out Broadway show.

DR: Yes, I was on the creative team for that. I was associate music supervisor and I did the synth programming. I was offered a position to play in the band, but I didn't want to do it because it was eight shows a week. I preferred to just be on the creative team and not have to do that. Although, I did sub a bunch of times. I did quite a number of shows as a sub on Broadway and also on the touring production. They would also bring me around to work on all the touring productions of the show. There was a national tour of Movin’ Out in the US, then there was a non-union tour in the US, and there was a West End production in London. I was involved in all those productions as well as the Broadway production. Another part of my job was to train each of the piano players to be sure they were playing Billy’s parts correctly.

JC: While Movin’ Out was going on, you got to play with Happy the Man. That band had been one of your favorites.

DR: Yeah, they were one of my favorite bands of all time. Happy the Man is a progressive rock instrumental band. When I was at Berklee, I studied their music heavily and transcribed a lot of [keyboardist] Kit Watkins’s solos. I think I wore out their records listening to them so many times! The band was a big inspiration to me musically, and their keyboardist Kit Watkins was a big inspiration to me as a keyboard player. Unfortunately, by the time I found out about Happy the Man, they had already broken up. 

In any event, fast forward 20-somewhat years later—I think it was 1999 or 2000—and Happy the Man were gonna do a reunion. I had become friendly with the guys over the years. Kit Watkins didn't want to do the reunion, so I was like, "Hey, I'm your guy. I'll do it. I know all the songs." They were thrilled with that. We got together and we played, and the chemistry clicked immediately and we started writing songs. Most of the song “Contemporary Insanity,” which is the lead track on the album,  I had written when I was at Berklee wishing that I could someday be in Happy the Man. At that time, it  was an impossibility because they had already broken up and didn't exist anymore. 

So when it was time to actually play with them, I said, "You know, I got this song called “Contemporary Insanity” that I think is pretty cool . . . see what you guys think of it." And they absolutely loved it. So I polished it up, and it became the first song on the album that I did with them, The Muse Awakens. I also wrote a couple of other songs on that record. It was just a thrill to be able to play with those guys and to be able to make a record with one of my favorite bands of all time. 

David recording Happy the Man’s The Muse Awakens (2004)

JC:  Now getting back to Billy Joel . . . the concerts with him had hit a new dimension in recent years. There was a live performance at Shea Stadium, and then of course there's now the residency at Madison Square Garden. 

DR: Shea Stadium was an incredible experience. I mean, it was two shows and all of these amazing guest artists came up. It was sorta capped off at the end with Paul McCartney. To be able to play with a Beatle at Shea Stadium was really a cool moment. I grew up in New Jersey. Shea Stadium is a place that has a lot of history, not only for baseball but also for concerts. And it was really cool that we did those shows. At the Shea Stadium shows, we had a string orchestra as well which I did the arranging for. It was just a really, really cool event, definitely one of the highlights of my career. 

And now to be able to do the residency at Madison Square Garden has been incredible. We've done 73 shows sold out in a row, interrupted only by the pandemic. When this is finally over, we'll go back and continue, but who knows when that will be. We all hope it will be soon. As I mentioned, I grew up in New Jersey, and when I was a kid I used to go to concerts at Madison Square Garden. I saw so many great shows there.

Billy, David (back left center) and famed violinist Itzhak Perlman (right) at Madison Square Garden (2015)

Now, to be able to play there so many times has been an amazing experience. I mean, 73 shows on this run alone, but over the course of my whole career, I've played there well over 100 times. It's really something that I don't take for granted because most musicians are lucky to play there in their lifetime even once. And to be able to play there over 100 times, it's pretty special and I never take it for granted. I always try to take a mental snapshot of the whole picture of everything when I'm on stage each time to really write it into my brain and really remember how fortunate I am to be in involved in something like this. [To hear Billy Joel’s “My Life” performed at Shea Stadium, please click here.]

JC: I also saw that Billy has trusted you to do piano transcriptions of his songs. 

DR: Well, I'm actually still in the process of this. I'm correcting his entire sheet music catalogue, which has been sold for many years and has had tons and tons of mistakes and wrong notes and all kinds of crazy stuff. He trusted me to just go through the entire catalogue and make sure that all of his sheet music that's in print is correct. I'm going album by album—not in consecutive order, but I've finished seven of his albums so far and I'm working on the eighth one now. I'm gonna keep going until I get through the whole catalogue. 

JC: You’ve been with Billy a long time and he's trusting you to do the transcriptions. What do you think has been the key to your success with Billy?

DR: I just think that he saw my ability and my deep knowledge of his music and the job that I was doing as a band member, and  eventually he made me musical director. He knows that I really know his music inside and out. He knows that I also have a deep understanding of his music as a piano player myself, so he trusts me to make sure that it's all correct in print. I'm quite honored to have that job.

JC: My final question is similar to a question I asked earlier. It’s not just that you have played with many musicians, but the many musicians you’ve played with are different musically from each other. What do you think your success in playing different genres is due to?

DR: I'm very comfortable in a lot of different genres. The one thing I think is true across the board with any style of music is that it's great if it’s done right. And music can be great in any style. I enjoy the challenge of reinventing myself as a player and for the types of sounds that I use and what I can contribute to all of the different roles that I've had over the years. So I wouldn't say that I love anything more than anything else. I love music, and I've been very fortunate to play in some great bands with some great artists. I think every situation I've been in is special and unique unto itself. 

A Very Candid Conversation with Chuck Burgi

Chuck Burgi at drums (year unknown)

Chuck Burgi has the gig of a lifetime. Since the 1970s, Chuck has maintained an impressive music career. Since 2005, he is the current drummer for the Billy Joel Band. He has also played with other big names such as Bon Jovi, Michael Bolton, Diana Ross, and Meat Loaf.

Chuck was born in 1952 in Montclair, New Jersey. He started playing drums when he was a teenager. He had his first big break in 1977 when he had the opportunity to play for jazz legend Al Di Meola. He then played drums in Brand X, a jazz fusion band. He took over for Phil Collins, who previously occupied the drum stool for Brand X. Chuck played on Brand X’s Masques album (1978). 

The jazz era came to an end and Chuck began his rock career with Hall & Oates. After playing drums with Hall & Oates, he played with a hard rock band Balance, and then he joined Rainbow, a group led by Ritchie Blackmore (guitarist of Deep Purple). I became familiar with Chuck when I heard his playing on Rainbow’s Bent Out of Shape (1983), and I was even more impressed with Chuck when I saw a video of Rainbow live in 1984 in Japan before the band dissolved. 

In the late eighties and early nineties, Chuck played on recording sessions for a variety of artists such as Michael Bolton and Bon Jovi. He then toured with Meat Loaf for seven years. When Meat Loaf took a break from touring to work on his next album, Chuck played with Blue Oyster Cult for four years. Then in 1995, Ritchie Blackmore decided to reform Rainbow and Chuck rejoined the band. Blackmore would later dissolve Rainbow in order to start Blackmore’s Night. Chuck then found employment with Enrique Iglesias for three years. Afterward, he got the chance to perform in Movin’ Out, a Broadway musical featuring Billy Joel songs. During the three-and-a-half-year run of Movin’ Out, Chuck caught the attention of the piano man himself. After Movin’ Out came to an end, Chuck played drums with Billy Joel himself, playing to sold-out crowds at stadiums all over the world.

In this candid conversation, we cover Chuck’s entire career from his beginning in jazz to his current tenure with Billy Joel. I want to thank Chuck for his time in talking to me about his incredible career.

Jeff Cramer: What encouraged you to pick up your sticks?

Chuck Burgi:  Oh man, that takes me way back. My father was an aspiring dilettante drummer, and when he was a teenager, he won a couple of Gene Krupa competitions, and he always maintained a love for the drums and a love of music, especially big band music, and he always had a drum set around. I would mess around with them on and off and play them a bit, but it wasn't until I saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan that I realized I had to be playing music. I first thought I should be a bass player because I fell in love with Paul McCartney. I just thought he made it look so good. But I didn't have a bass, and there was a drum set staring at me, and I'd been beating it on and off for the last five years, and that was it.

 In junior high, I met a bunch of people who were really good musicians and we started a band. It was in seventh grade, but by the eighth grade, we were getting bookings. We went through a couple of changes, but primarily it was the same group of players. By the time we were juniors and seniors in the north Jersey area, which is where I grew up, we were working every Friday and Saturday night. I was making more money in school because we were getting paid in cash than I did for the first three years out of high school after taxes no matter what job I was doing. So I was locked in.

I have to say that while we had a good band in high school, I had an older brother figure. I'm the oldest in my family, but I had an older brother figure, who is Joe Walsh from the Eagles.

JC: The Joe Walsh?

CB: The Joe Walsh. He was my musical hero as I grew up. He had a band, and his band befriended my parents, who used to have these long, crazy jam sessions every Friday and Saturday night in Montclair. When Joe finally left Montclair, he went to college and then subsequently his college band turned into the James Gang. By that time, my band was playing harder rock, and we saw him at least twice a year every year after that when he would come back for usually Thanksgiving and Christmas. I thought if Joe could do it, and I could play with him in my folks' basement, then maybe I have a big shot at being able to do this also. So that was the beginning of my whole career.

JC: So you started off in jazz fusion. You played with Brand X and Al Di Meola. Which came first?

CB: Al Di Meola was my first. It was his first solo tour, and it was my first big-time tour gig.

JC: And how'd you get that?

CB: Okay, so I'll try to make this really short. In 1974, I was living on the West Coast, and I was in a band with a percussionist, Mingo Lewis. So when Al was looking for material for his albums, he called Mingo up, and Mingo said, “Hey, I've got some songs for you.” Al used them for his album. Then in 1977, I went to New York City because somebody called me and said, "Dude, I know you're looking to play crazy music. Al Di Meola is looking for drummers." I went in to SIR (Studio Instrument Rentals) unannounced with no appointment, and Al came out within minutes of me being there. As it turned out, Al was auditioning Michael Shrieve from Santana, an old friend of mine.

Al was auditioning Michael on one of Mingo’s songs, and it wasn't going good. So Al came out to say goodbye to Michael, walked over, and made a phone call. As Al was getting off the phone, I walked up to him and said, "Sir, you have no idea who I am, but I know how to play that song." He looked at me like I had three heads. I told him I used to play with Mingo. “Are you shitting me?” he said. I was, like, “No, that's why I'm here.” He said, "Come in with me." By that time, I had already familiarized myself with Al’s solo record, so I knew all the songs, at least as well as I could. Al and I jammed on them and he asked me back the next day. We went through the same songs and a few more. His road manager gave me an itinerary and said, “You’ve got the job.” That was it. [To hear Al Di Meola perform a 1977 live version of “Senor Mouse,” click here.]

JC: And did you get the Brand X gig from playing with Al? Is that how it came about?

CB: Actually no. At the end of '77, I got a call saying, “The bass player from Brand X is here in New Jersey looking for a drummer. Do you wanna audition?” And I was like, “Are you fucking kidding?” So I got in the car and drove up to the House of Music, which was an old studio in West Orange—a great studio. I jammed with a friend of mine on guitar, and Percy, the bass player for Brand X. Percy said, “Thanks for showing up.” He had some other people to listen to. I guess about two weeks later I got a call, and they said, “Percy wants you to meet the whole band.” I jammed with the whole band, and they asked me to come to New York.

JC: It also must have been quite a thing because Phil Collins was the drummer of Brand X. How'd it feel following in his footsteps?

Drummers for Brand X: Chuck and Phil Collins (year unknown)

CB: Dude, you have no idea. It was the creepiest, craziest time of my life to be suddenly tossed into a job where not only am I replacing Phil Collins for the time being—and I never looked at it as a replacement—I was actually filling in for him. But also, those guys were some of my heroes. I listened to Brand X all of the time. I knew a bunch of Percy’s stuff pretty good—maybe better than a lot of other people—so I had the opportunity to play with him and we hit it off. Next thing I know, I'm rehearsing with the band. So wow. It was incredible.

And funny you bring that up because I wasn’t playing and touring, so I took the time to go through the archives of my own music. I had a tape that was recorded at the old venue—a beautiful theater in London—of one of our most prestigious gigs that I did with Brand X. I transferred the tape to my computer, and I was mixing it as an album. I wasn’t gonna sell it because I would get in trouble—well, maybe not. I don't know. I didn’t need to sell it. I was burning it for the few friends who were always fans of that. I've been reflecting on that whole time period, which was absolutely mind-boggling to go from being a shmoe from New Jersey to working with friends of Phil Collins, and eventually Brand X opened up the big outdoor shows and Genesis would close them. So, it was just overwhelming. It really was. It was amazing. Looking back on it, I’m so glad to have had that opportunity, not only to play with Al, but to be a part of the Brand X crew and to do an album with them. Really lucky. [To hear “The Poke,” the opening track off the Masques album Chuck played on, click here.]


JC: From jazz fusion, we go into rock music. I understand you played with Hall & Oates.

CB: Oh, I did. And oddly enough, it was within a year of leaving Brand X. I got a call from a friend who said, “Hey, I heard Hall & Oates.” I had met a bunch of people over the years, and a couple of ’em lived in Manhattan and had their ears to the pulse of whatever was going on in Manhattan and whatever auditions would occur. So I went right out there. I really wasn't familiar with their stuff—that was like going from A to Z, you know, or Z back to A. If I was playing a million notes every minute with Brand X and Al, I had to start playing real simple again for Hall & Oates. I joined them when they were having their first resurgence. I played on the album Voices, but it was only of a couple songs. But that album had two number-one hits, and one song I did play on ended up being Top 10.

JC: Which song was that?

CB: It was "Loving Feeling," their remake of the Righteous Brothers. [To hear “You’ve Lost that Loving Feeling,” click here.] It was a real blast to go from playing crazy, crazy music to suddenly hearing myself on AM radio. So I kind of switched gears at that point, and I never looked back as far as work went. I realized that I was happier playing rock and roll, because that was how I began. I'd been in cover bands most of my life, so back then it was the Beatles, Buffalo Springfield, and Led Zeppelin. Hall & Oates also had a number one hit called "Kiss On My Lips" while I was in the band. We went from doing big clubs to suddenly big theaters. I had a great time with them, and it really took me like 360 degrees back to my roots, which was playing pop music, playing rock and roll.

JC: I know you got the Rainbow gig because Joe [Joe Lynn Turner, singer of Rainbow, will be referred to as “Joey”] wasn't happy with the drummer they had at the time and he told the band, “You've got to bring in Chuck.” How did Joe know you?

CB: Oh man, so between the years of '71 to '72 and '74 to '77, I lived in the New York area, and there were so many big clubs to play that I was able to make a living. And while I was playing with a couple of groups, Joey was in Fandango, and he was looking for somebody to help him get a record deal. It turned out he was going around to all the clubs looking for a drummer in another band. And he saw me play and got my number from somebody. He called me up and said, “Listen, I've got a band, we're looking to do a half-dozen original songs, and we wanna bring you in and do live gigs as well.” So, when I joined Fandango, it was for a three-month tour. I was a hired gun, and that's how I got to know Joey. Back then, he was a great lead guitarist.

JC: Yes, I've seen some of his lead guitar playing from live concert footage of Fandango in '78. 

CB: I think he was in a band called Ezra before he joined Fandango, and they were a Deep Purple cover band in the North Jersey area. So I was in Essex County, and we hit it off. We became best of friends, and I helped him get the record deal. And it's funny because just as Fandango was getting signed, I got the offer to go out with Al Di Meola. So, I was really hoping to do the Fandango record, but I thought that working with Al would have been a better choice. So that's what happened. And you know, Joey and I stayed in touch through the years, and when he joined Rainbow, I remember hearing about it and thinking, Oh my God, he's hit the big time.

I guess after it was after Straight Between the Eyes came out and they toured . . . that's when Joey called me up and said, "Listen, you wanna come out and jam with the band? We're looking for a drummer." So I went out, I played with them, and I thought it went really well, but Ritchie was such a pisser. He was, like, “Yeah, thanks. Thanks for coming by.” And so he left, and I went over to Joey and I said, “So what do you think?” And he said, “I don't know, he's so weird.” And the bass player, Roger, came up to me and said, "Dude, I'm getting ready to do a solo record and I'd like you to play on it." So I was like, “Cool.” So I started working with Roger.

I got a call from their manager and Joey, and they said, "You know what, Ritchie went with this other guy." So I worked with Roger till he had to go to Scandinavia to start the next Rainbow album Bent Out of Shape. I thought, “That's it, I got to start all over again.” Ten days later, I got a call—a fairly drunken call—from Joey, and he said, "Dude, you gotta come over here, man. We don't have anything." So that was it.

The sessions were really difficult and really pressurized because they had already wasted about ten days in the studio and had nothing to show for it. So I went in every day, and I'd rehearse a song and then we'd try to cut the track. It didn’t always work that way, but it came close to that. And when I left Scandinavia after recording the album, I thought I would never work with then again. Ritchie just didn't seem to like me at all, but about a month later, I got a call from their manager again. He said, "Hey, Ritchie wants to know if you wanna come on the road." And I was, like, “Are you kidding?” So it was another eight months of some of the best times of my life.

Rainbow 1984 (Chuck in middle)

JC: I've interviewed several people who’ve played with Ritchie, and I've heard a lot of stories about him. What’s your story?

CB: Oh my God, Ritchie’s a legend. I just think he is the quirkiest, weirdest Englishman I've ever met. You know, I didn't get along with him in the studio. I had my own ways of working and he kept fucking with me. But when we went on the road, it was nothing but fun. So you know, I personally have nothing but good things to say about Ritchie. Suffice it to say, once we hit the road, it was nothing but fun. And he was a soccer player, and I loved soccer back then. We played all the time. We played, worked out, dribbled the ball, so it was really fun, and I got along with Ritchie. He was one of my heroes.

I love Deep Purple from Shades of Deep Purple and “Hush.” When I was in high school, their album Machine Head came out, I was, like, “Holy fuck.” So, I was thrilled beyond measure to be able to play with him. And Joey—I thought Joey was—and still is—one of my favorite vocalists ever. It was a real thrill to be in Rainbow with Joey and Ritchie. One of my favorite rock and roll guitar players and one of my favorite vocalists. Really good times. I look back and I was so blessed to have those experiences.

JC: There was a memorable moment in Japan when you were playing live with Rainbow along with a Japanese orchestra. You were doing “Difficult to Cure,” a rock instrumental of Beethoven's Ninth. Any memories of playing with the orchestra?

CB: Absolutely. First of all, we got off right around Christmas, and then we had a couple weeks off, and we literally started up in Tokyo, Japan. And the only rehearsals were right there at the Budokan venue, and I wish we were able to ramp back up again. Like, let's do a bunch of gigs before and get back into the groove. But we flew to Tokyo after a couple weeks off.  We did three shows at Budokan, and then they compiled the shows for video.  I found out we were playing with an orchestra. They were right behind me, or they were behind me enough so that I could hear them. Back then there were no in-ears [in-ears is an earpiece musicians use on stage or during recordings to hear vocals, stage instrumentation, etc.], so I just had really loud monitors [Before in-ears, loudspeakers were placed on stage directed toward the performer]. But it was very unsettling because Ritchie liked to play ahead of the beat. He liked to be on top, and the orchestra leader felt like playing behind the beat. So I was in the middle between the two. We were playing those pretty intricate lines of Beethoven's Ninth. I was hearing Ritchie and Roger and me, but I was also hearing enough of the orchestra and they were a half a beat behind me. It felt like that at rehearsal, and it felt like that when we performed and recorded it, but it turned out okay. I was just freaking out the whole time because I had to be able to watch Ritchie, who was definitely a handful every night, but I also had to watch the conductor and keep both groups happy. My main memory of that was one of extreme pressure. That's all I can say. And you know, it came out great. [To hear Rainbow and the orchestra’s performance, click here.]

JC: Also after Rainbow, I understand you did a lot sessions with a lot of famous people, such as Bon Jovi and Diana Ross.

Yeah. Before Rainbow, I had left Hall & Oates to join a band called Balance. We did a record that was okay. I didn't particularly like most of the writing, but they wanted it to sound big and nasty, like Journey. So we all did our best to try and turn their songs into Journey type of songs. [Readers can decide if Balance’s “Slow Motion” sounds like Journey by clicking here.]  I met Bobby Kulick who had played with Kiss. [Bobby Kulick shortly passed away after this interview.]

Balance (1982, Chuck in middle)

And then Gene Simmons heard the Balance album and called me about getting some drums for Kiss’ Creatures of the Night album. I wasn’t going to play on it because they had Eric Carr to play drums, but I rented my drums to them. After I worked with Gene with Kiss, he called me up and said, “Diana's looking for somebody to do some percussion.” So I did a session with Diana Ross for her album Silk Electric.

After Rainbow, I had also done a few sessions with a producer on a project called Archangel, and then it turned out that he got the job to do the rest of the first Bon Jovi record. So the producer called me, and I think I played on five songs on that self-titled record. It was so crazy because I used to work a lot at the Power Station, and back then, Jon Bon Jovi, known as John Bongiovi, he was the night manager. You know, clean up after sessions, sweep the floors, clean up the studios after everybody's gone. I met Bon Jovi that way. I remember seeing him standing in the doorway of Studio A, which I was fortunate enough to record a lot in. He’d be standing there listening to the playback and say, “Sounds pretty good, man.” I would look at him and say, “When are you gonna do your band?” He would say, “Well, I'm working on it.” I was like, “Well, you need some help, let me know.” And sure enough, I ended up playing on his first record. So it was very cool . . . very cool.

JC: Also you got to play with Michael Bolton. This was when he was still a hard rocker before he became the Michael Bolton we all know.

CB: Absolutely. So the same guy who was managing Balance was also managing Michael Bolton, so he called me up about doing Michael's first solo record, which I was fortunate enough to do.

The album had me, Bobby Kulick from Balance, and Mark Clarke on bass. Michael was coming off another band he was in, Blackjack, and they were serious hard rock. So yeah, Michael was totally into rock, and I had a blast working with him. I have to say that when we started with him, we rehearsed for his album, and we did a really, really slick arrangement on every one of his songs. The day before we started recording, his producer took us all into the studio and said, "Okay, you know all the rehearsing and the arrangements you've done? Well, forget about 'em. I want you to do Michael's album like this.” And he played us AC/DC’s Back in Black. He said, “That's what I want you guys to be like.” I was like, “Wow.” So it was a real challenge, and we did our best to forget the work we did and the real slick stuff we were gonna do and tried to tough it up and emulate AC/DC, who I really hadn't heard that much of. [To hear a different Michael Bolton singing, “Can’t Hold On, Can’t Let Go,” click here.] And then it turned out that Michael's manager was working for Leber-Krebs, who ended up taking on AC/DC as a client.


JC: Was Blue Oyster Cult your first group after all of the individual sessions?

CB: No, after Rainbow, I did Joey Lynn Turner's solo album and his solo tour. We were out for a whole year opening up for Pat Benatar and Night Ranger. Due to circumstances beyond my control, he managed to piss off the record label, so by the end of that year, they were like, “Fuck you, Joe.” So I took some time off, and then I got asked to audition for Meat Loaf. I joined Meat Loaf after auditioning. Bobby, who I played with in Balance, was asked to come back, and Bobby wanted to get rid of Meat Loaf’s drummer, and Meat Loaf was like, “If you've got somebody better, bring him in.” So I joined up with Meat Loaf, and I was with Meat Loaf for seven years. I met my now-wife back then. My wife and her sister were background singers, and they sang on the album that he had done. We did a lot of headlining gigs that Blue Oyster Cult were on before us. [To hear Meat Loaf live in 1988 perform a medley of rock classics as “Johnny B Goode” and “Jailhouse Rock,” click here.]

Chuck playing drums with Meat Loaf (1988)

I got to meet Blue Oyster Cult. When the time came that Meat Loaf put touring aside to start working on the next album, Back into Hell, which took him like two or three years, I got a call from Blue Oyster Cult and they said, “Hey, we heard you're gonna be home because Meat Loaf's not gonna be touring.  Our drummer's leaving; do you wanna join?” So I was with them for four years, I think.

JC: While you were in Blue Oyster Cult, didn’t the band create music that was used for The Stand TV miniseries?

CB: Absolutely. We did a couple of remakes and a couple other incidental pieces of music. We remade “Don’t Fear the Reaper.” The remake of “Don’t Fear the Reaper” was supposed to sound like the original. What happened was that all their catalog from Columbia Records was in limbo. [To watch the opening scene from The Stand, involving the rerecorded “Don’t Fear The Reaper,” click here.] They couldn't access their original songs because they had been dropped from Columbia, and Columbia just wouldn't budge. Blue Oyster Cult earned money for The Stand by redoing “The Reaper,” which was their biggest hit, sparked them in getting a record deal to re-record all their classic hits. So we did an album called Cult Classic and rerecorded all of their other songs,  "Burning for You," "Godzilla," "Cities on Flames.” So that ended up being the Cult Classic album, which is really a karaoke record. I mean, it’s supposed to sound like their original songs. So yeah, that was the first recording I did with them.

Blue Oyster Cult, Cult Classic (1994)

Then Buck [guitarist/singer for Blue Oyster Cult] and I did some music for a thing he did, Bad Channels, which was a sci-fi movie. Then they eventually got another album deal and we did Heaven Forbid. So yeah, I had a lotta fun with them. I loved Buck Dharma. Oh man, one of my favorite people and one of my favorite guitar players.

JC: It seems like a good deal of band members were both in Blue Oyster Cult and the 95–96 incarnation of Rainbow.

CB: Huh. Well, I will say something really wacky. John O’Riley was the drummer on Rainbow’s Stranger in Us All. For some reason, Ritchie didn't want to take him on tour even though he did a great job on the album. So I left Blue Oyster Cult and joined Rainbow, and John came in and joined Blue Oyster Cult. So while I was with Ritchie, John O'Riley was with Blue Oyster Cult. So that's the kind of glue there.

Rainbow 1996 (Chuck, far right)

Another thing, when I called John Miceli to take my place in Rainbow to do a two-week tour, John Miceli was also the guy who I talked Meat Loaf into to take my place. So, John Miceli ended up being there with Meat Loaf for the last 20 years. Pretty nutty.

JC: Ritchie then eventually formed Blackmore's Night very shortly after that Rainbow lineup. While you were in Rainbow, was there any hints that Blackmore’s Night would happen?

CB: Absolutely. I'll take you way back to Deep Purple. You know, one of the reasons why they parted ways, as far as my understanding goes, is ’cause Ritchie was pushing to get Candy back then to sing background with Deep Purple. [Candy is Candice Night, singer of Blackmore’s Night and wife of Ritchie Blackmore.] So when I was getting ready to tour with Rainbow, Ritchie said, “Candy's gonna sing on a couple of these songs. She'll sing off stage.” When I joined the band, they had a great manager, a guy named Joe Boyland. He did 38 Special and a bunch of other bands. But halfway through the tour, Ritchie fired Joe, and then he said, “Candy's mom is going to manage.” So I saw the writing on the wall with that, and coupled with the fact that he really wanted her to start singing with the band. He had also co-written a song called "Ariel" with her. [To hear “Ariel” live, click here.] I think his patience with rock and roll had ran out, and he wanted to go in another direction, and more power to him.

I think Blackmore’s Night did a couple of records that are really nice. I didn't like them in the beginning because she was new, she was young, she was trying to figure out how the studio works, but I think she's blossomed into a really great talent, and he seems happy.

Recently, Ritchie put Rainbow back together. You know, I saw some of the latest incarnation of Rainbow, and I was underwhelmed. But you know, I understand that he was thrown a good deal of money to put that type of thing back together, and he was also being pressured to bring in people who had been in  Rainbow, and he didn't want any of that. And you know what, for an old guy who was very set in his ways and very opinionated, that was his choice, that's what he wanted. When I saw him play live, it wasn't what I thought he should be doing, but again, he's Ritchie, no one can tell him nothing. So, I didn't think it was bad; I just thought, “You know, like why are you doing this?” He didn't even seem to be into it.

JC: I understand you reunited with a former Rainbow player (also future Billy Joel player), David Rosenthal, when you went to play with Enrique Iglesias. How'd that come after Rainbow?

CB: In 1992, Dave called me up and was doing a solo record  called Red Dawn. I played with him then, and it's a phenomenal record. It was done after Pantera hit. This wasn't nasty enough as Pantera, but it was also too hard; it  didn't fit anywhere for where most of music was. But it was a great album. [To hear Red Dawn's “Flyin’ High,” click here.] So I kind of reunited with Dave in '92.

Red Dawn (David,  left, Chuck, second from  left) 1992

It wasn't until '97 that we both ended up being in Enrique's band for Enrique’s very first world tour. [To see a live performance from Enrique Iglesias in 1997, click here.] The music that we had to reimagine live for him was right up my alley. It's arena rock and it's big and had a lot of guitar solos. I was hired by guitarist Tommy Byrnes, who has ended up being my best contact in the music business. He got me Enrique. He offered me, Movin’ Out the Billy Joel Broadway show. He and I have done a bunch of recordings since then and before then. He always told me that Billy would wanna hire me, and I never believed him until it actually happened. So we've been working together with Billy since 2005.

JC: I understand Billy saw you could play his music when he came to watch Movin’ Out.

CB: Yeah, he saw me play in Movin' Out. Movin' Out played for three and a half years, and it was a pretty good run on Broadway compared to the amount of shows that have tried to be like it and have only run maybe a year or less. Billy had a chance to see me play his stuff for three and a half years. He started sitting in with us at the end of the show during the curtain calls, so I met him and we actually started jamming together and playing. I have to say that for the years I was on stage with that band almost every night, I prepared by imaging that Billy was gonna be in the audience, so there was never any slack on my part. But I always gave every show 1,000 percent with the hopes that he would see I could be his drummer. All I could hope for was that I might get the gold ring some day. And literally within two months of our show closing, Tommy came up to me and said Billy wants you to go on the road.

I just looked at Tommy and said, “Don't play with me, man.” And he was like, “No, no, this time for sure.” So I was out on Long Island in Oyster Bay rehearsing with Billy during the day and then I drove back in to do the Broadway show at night. And talk about an intense time in my life. Oh my God. I don't think I slept for like a month. But yeah, I got the gold ring.

JC: Tell me about having the gold ring. It's something you've been doing for about  14 or 15 years now.

CB: Fourteen years, yeah, because I joined Billy at the end of 2005. It has been the most jaw-dropping experience that I ever could have imagined. He is the fiercest live performer I've ever worked with. He doesn't jump around as much anymore. But his vocals and what he brings to the show every night has made me work harder than I have with anybody night after night. And with him, I've been blessed to do things like play with a dozen of my heroes, from Paul McCartney, Tony Bennett, Steven Tyler and Roger Daltrey at Shea Stadium. Billy was asked to give the two final performances to ever play at that iconic venue. So to be with Billy and the band doing these two massive shows in 2008 was just great. I thought, Well, I can die and go to heaven because not only did I do this, but I also played with McCartney.

Since then, in the last six and seven years, we did two Wembley Stadiums in London, completely sold out, like 80,000-something people. We've gone on to play Lambeau Field, sold out in Green Bay. I've done six Fenway Parks in a row. I have played Madison Square Garden so many times. A friend of mine called today and said, “Do you realize that you are gonna be in the Guinness Book of World Records as the only drummer to play as many shows as you have at the Garden?” I have played 84 or 85 sellouts. Every show sold out. Not only will Billy be in the book as the entertainer, but we, the band, will all be there on our different instruments. Everybody in the band deserves to be in the Guinness Book as well. So, it's been monumental.

The current Billy Joel Band (Chuck, second from  top left)

  And it's beyond comprehension what we've been doing at the Garden, as well as six Citizen Bank Stadiums. We did five Wrigley Fields in a row. All sold out. It's insane. Billy's popularity now is greater than it's ever been, and he's seventy. The band has all my favorite people from my career. Billy gives us all the room to bring all that we can every night, and it is a magic situation, which I miss terribly. [All music concerts have been postponed because of the coronavirus.] I'm pining for it every time a gig comes up and passes us by because it truly is on a personal level, a professional level, a musical level, and a spiritual level that is unsurpassed in my life. I always thought somewhere there's got be somebody who's indestructible and can sing unbelievable every night and write the best songs like the Beatles, and I found him. And I swear it is beyond comprehension. That's how deep it is. So I'm blessed. [To watch Billy Joel play his classic “Piano Man” at the final shows at Shea Stadium, click here.]

JC: I’ve heard that Billy doesn't like to go for rehearsals. In fact, you guys don't know the set list he’s going play for the show.

CB: You know what? I love Billy for that. Yet, as the drummer, I can't fuck up, although I've definitely made my share of big, horrible mistakes. But Billy loves it. But he hates to rehearse. The most rehearsing we ever did was when we did a benefit for Sandy [Chuck is referring to Hurricane Sandy in 2012.] But most of the time, there's no rehearsal, and I don't know what the set list is gonna be, and it's all by the seat of your pants every show. Billy wouldn't have it any other way. So I love him for that, but man, there's no comfort zone. I've shown up to some shows at the Garden, and as soon as I'm walking in, someone will say, “You know, we're gonna do this, and we have this person as a guest tonight.” I’ll say, “What? How come I didn't know?” “Well, none of us did.” So we’re sitting there with our iPads or iPhones, dialing up the song, making cheat sheets. And at sound check, Billy might come in and say, “Hey, I wanna do this tonight.” So between the hours of 6:00 and 8:00, before the show goes on 8:15, we have to be familiar enough to be able to get up there and play something that we may not even get to do one practice run through it. Billy says, “I just wanna do it in the show.” I'm like, “Well, we haven't played that in seven months.” He will say, “Well, we're gonna do it tonight.” No one else in the music business does that.

Billy's like, “I do not want to be comfortable. I want to be walking the edge. I want the rush of not knowing how a song goes, and I want to feel that. I don't want to be complacent.” Well, I'd like to be comfortable,  but that's not his gig. Never was, and it couldn't be more unique and more different every night. It's a different set list every night. Every night, I'll be sitting there over and over again listening to something on my headphone saying, “Oh fuck, how'd that go?” I make these music charts so I can get through the song. I’m like, “Really? We're gonna do that? If you had told me last night, I could have stayed up late at home and done this at least better.” But no, he's not like that. He's a crazy man.

JC: I'm curious if Billy was a fan of Rainbow, because right now both you and David Rosenthal are in Billy’s band, but you were both part of Rainbow. In fact, Billy used Joey from Rainbow to do backup vocals for the studio recording of "I Go to Extremes."

CB: That's interesting. I've never really asked him. I've gotta say, though, I do know that Billy is a hard rock freak. And it wouldn't surprise me if he was very familiar with a lot of that stuff. Certainly, he knows a lot of the Deep Purple stuff, but I mean, it sounds horrible on piano. He loves jamming on Cream, he loves jamming on Hendrix, Zeppelin. We've got a guy in the band who can now sing Zeppelin, so we've morphed some of that into our concert set.
                           
When I play with Billy on piano, a lot of what he does on piano reminds me of Eddie Van Halen on guitar. When I play with him, I feel like I'm gonna try to be Alex Van Halen (drummer of Van Halen) to his Eddie, and that's how we play. So I tend to swing his stuff as if I'm in Van Halen, not playing with a piano player. And it works. Yeah, it takes me a lot of time to really figure out what his music truly means.

 I'm not really there to do anything new. A lot of what Liberty Devitto [ex-drummer for Billy Joel] brought to the table wasn't broken, and it didn’t need to be retooled or reimagined by myself. I'm just there to be consistent, I guess. I don't know how Liberty got fired out of that band. You know, it can happen to the best of us. You get complacent or you get bored or you think, You know what, I'm a better drummer than these songs show and I'm gonna show it to you. And you start doing that and you start detracting from the music on top of maybe not having the best time in the world to begin with, and it's a recipe for disaster. So I don't know why Liberty's not there—I never dug into it all that hard. I'm just blessed that I got the opportunity to be playing with who I consider to be the premier American composer in popular music.

I mean, it's not called Billy and the Barnacles. It's called Billy Joel. And so you're not a barnacle. You're not like an E Street member. You're a drummer. I think that's a mistake some guys make, and I think it was a fatal one for Lib.

JC: Well, Chuck, I guess one question I wanna ask. Even though the Billy Joel gig alone would be a very impressive thing for any drummer, you also been working for several decades and you got to play with a lot of big artists. What do you think's been your secret to sustain all this?

CB: Oh, that's a nice question.  I can blab about all this stuff, but I think it's been my willingness to reinvent myself. You know, I kind of don't know if I have a style. If you listen to me on any particular record or video, that's me doing my best to bring something for the arts. Like I told you, I had a bunch of really cool drum parts worked up for Michael Bolton's first album and then I get played “Back In Black.” And I'm like, “Oh my God.” So I had to reinvent what I had rehearsed. I think my willingness to reinvent myself has definitely kept me working as opposed to something like, “I only play double bass and I'm a metal drummer.” Man, if the opportunity comes up to play something else where it's not as slick or it's not as heavy, then I'm gonna try and change to bring something that’s not new, but instead bring something to that artist or to the music that suits the need. I've kind of been a chameleon my whole life, and I think that's probably been my biggest plus. Certainly it hasn't been my musical choice at time, but I've been given different opportunities, and I've tried to do them as well as I can. I think that willingness to kind of reinvent myself has been the single most contributing factor to whatever success I've had.

JC: I know you go on tour because of the coronavirus, but do you know of any tour plans Billy might have when the coronavirus fades away?

CB: You know, Billy and I talk once a month. I know he's missing it. I know everybody in the band's missing it. I'd like to think that when the smoke clears we could ramp this up, but for any of the big acts to fire their engine back up again they need a minimum of twenty-five to thirty core people. I'd like to think yes. I'd like to think that Billy's far from wanting to say “I'm done,” but I'm on the edge of my seat every month waiting to see and hear something. It's a tough call right now, and I know it sucks for everybody. Whatever happens, obviously I'm gonna have to deal with it.

I find it hard to deal with even the concept of it not happening again. I really do. I feel like I'm retired right now, but I'm not sweating. Billy's been cool enough to take care of us, but if everything dries up, then everyone's life is gonna change massively. And I really can't entertain that right now. That's too painful. It's too much of an incredible experience. We did have a whole year planned, so when and however that's going to get fired up again, there's a whole another year of work that we have to make up. So, I'm hoping that we're gonna get the opportunity to do that.

A Very Candid Conversation with Mick Cripps

Mick Cripps (year unknown)

Mick Cripps was a rhythm guitarist/keyboardist as well as contributing songwriter for rock band L.A. Guns. (Tracii Guns, lead guitarist of L.A. Guns, originally played with Axl Rose in Guns N’ Roses. The name of the group, Guns N’ Roses, is a combination of their last names.) L.A. Guns was part of the Los Angeles metal scene with bands such as Guns N’ Roses, Poison, and Mötley Crüe. They achieved moderate chart success in the late eighties and the early nineties. Their biggest hit album Cocked & Loaded (1989) hit number 38 on the album charts. Cocked & Loaded also contained their biggest single “The Ballad of Jayne” which peaked at number 33. In 1993, Cripps formed Burning Retna, an experimental band that at times included L.A. Guns drummer Nickey “Beats” Alexander and bassist Kelly Nickels. The band never recorded an album and dissolved in 1996, but they released a compilation in 2006.  

Cripps left L.A. Guns in 1995, but he reunited with them in 1999 only to leave again in 2001. He was invited to play on the album Hollywood Forever but declined. In 2017, Cripps formed the Brutalists with vocalist Nigel Mogg (of the Quireboys). The music was an emulation of the pub rock era. (Pub rock was a British pop/rock music scene in the seventies that was played in pubs rather than in theaters or stadiums. The music was more of a back-to-basic style of rock in response to the British rock scene that had become more experimental. Punk rock would be pub rock’s successor.) The Brutalists released a self-titled album in 2018 and their sophomore album, We Are Not Here to Help, in September 2019.

In this candid conversation, we discussed Mick’s time with the three bands. I want to think Billy James from Glass Onyon PR for setting up the interview, but most of all I want to thank Mick.

Jeff Cramer: So what got you interested in music? 

Mick Cripps: Well, I had an older brother who was a classical pianist. He bought lots of records and we’d listen to his Beatles and Rolling Stones’ albums. Usually  it’s a sibling that turns you on to something, but he happened to be a professional piano player, so there was music in the house, and who wouldn’t get into the Rolling Stones and the Beatles? And then there was all the other great music that was coming out in the ‘seventies.

JC: What made you decide on playing the guitar? Your brother was playing the piano. 

MC: I was messing around with the piano, but I preferred the flashiness of a guitar, so I got a bass and a guitar. I always played bass and guitar and just kind of bounced around between different instruments. The bass was easier. It was a quicker way to get in a band.

JC: When you were growing up, was there any guitarist you saw and said, “Hey, I want to play like that”? 

MC: Oh, I always idolized Mick Ronson from David Bowie and Spiders from Mars. I always thought he was amazing. I guess if I had a guitar hero, Mick Ronson was definitely one of them. And then there are all of the usuals . . . Keith Richards and all of the blues guys like Muddy Waters.

JC: Talk about how you started with L.A. Guns.

MC: I was living in England and I’d come to LA for a vacation when I met Nickey Beat, who was the drummer for the Weirdos. He had a rehearsal studio, and Guns N’ Roses was rehearsing there, and the Cramps, and all of these people. I met [lead guitarist] Tracii Guns. I think the week before I met him he had just left Guns N’ Roses, and so we were all hanging out and playing. That led to starting a group. He already had all of the posters and things from the old L.A. Guns thing he did with Axl Rose, so for the purposes of getting quick gigs, we just used the same band name. It stuck, you know? So it was really out of just not having to come up with a new name—it was convenient. No one knew that anybody was going to get big record deals. No one knew that Guns N’ Roses would become as huge as they would. Nobody knew any of these bands would get signed, so it was surprising when everybody all had record deals a year later. Hence, I didn’t return to England.

JC: L.A. Guns went through a lead singer change before they were signed.

MC: Yeah, we went through a couple of different singers. Allan Jones, who was a Welshman from Wales, played in a number of bands in the ‘sixties, including the Amen Corner, and he had clubs and things in England. He had a number of clothing stores on Melrose, and he became our manager. He brought over Phil Lewis, so that’s how we hooked up with Phil. And when we got Phil as lead singer, we got signed and it all took off.

L.A. Guns, 1988 (Mick Cripps, second from left)

                                                                                                                           
JC:  In addition to playing guitar, I understand that you also worked on the songwriting. Could you explain the process of writing songs?  

MC: Well, some of the songs would just come out of group jams. Other ones would come from people bringing in bits and pieces of songs or music and some lyrics. Phil would usually do the lyrics, so it’s always done in different ways . . . whatever worked, you know? There wasn’t one set method, but everybody would contribute. We always split everything five ways, even if somebody didn’t do anything on a particular song. We always split it. That was a good way to keep bands together, to be democratic about the songwriting process. Usually that keeps everybody wanting to contribute. If something is not working, you can just go onto another thing because you’ve got different inputs into the process. If you get stuck on one or two songs, you can keep moving on to the next thing until you come up with one that works. It’s pretty obvious when you have a good song everybody likes. There’s no set rules.

JC: Let’s talk about L.A. Guns’ biggest hit, “The Ballad of Jayne.” 

MC: That was another kind of group composition with me, Phil, and [L.A. Guns’ bassist] Kelly Nickels. Kelly wrote the lyrics on that. I did most of the music, and then later on the other guys came in and did pieces on it. Most of the compositions were group efforts. [To watch the music video for “The Ballad of Jayne,”  click here.]

JC: So you stayed until ’95. What made you leave L.A. Guns?  

MC: It was mid-’95. I pretty much needed a break from it, and so I left in’95 and went to work for a publishing company. Then I was instrumental in getting the original guys back together in 1999–2000 when we did a lot of touring, and we put out a few records on Cleopatra Records. That went until 2001, and then me and Kelly left.

JC: Why did you leave again? 

MC: I had other things to do, you know?  Different types of music.

JC: The one thing I wanted to mention is that I’ve listened to your other bands that you play guitar in, Burning Retna and the Brutalists. All three bands were different from each other. Let’s start off by talking about Burning Retna since that happened shortly before you left L.A. Guns. How that did come about? 

MC: I had a lot of interest in different styles of music, and I was playing with other people so I wouldn’t get stuck on one particular genre. I liked to listen to other types of music and always did and explored different things. So if I had the opportunity I took it. [To hear Burning Retna’s “Write My Name in Blood,” click here.]

Burning Retna (Mick, far left, year unknown) 

JC: I also understand that you were invited by L.A. Guns to record the Hollywood Forever album in 2012, but you declined. 

MC: I was busy doing other things, you know? They’re doing fine. They’re doing their thing. They didn’t need my help. They were managing along nicely without me. They didn’t need me.

JC: Your recent group, the Brutalists . . . tell me how it all began. 

MC: Well, I’ve been playing with the guys in the group for a number of years. We were playing different variations of it and doing lots of jamming and recording, and then we kind of formalized it when we talked singer Nigel Mogg into doing this kind of Ian Dury lead vocal thing, which worked out quite well and it was fun. You know, you play in a band with guys that are friends—you’re brothers, and things like that. It's real easy. You know the people you’re playing with well, so it was just an enjoyable experience. We just finished an English tour a couple of weeks back. We’ve been playing some gigs around town, and we’ve got a couple coming up. So it’s enjoyable. It's just a good outlet, a fun experience, and we enjoy ourselves with it. [To watch the Brutalists’ “Know Your Value,” click here.]

The Brutalists (Mick, center, year unknown)

JC: Again, it’s different from Burning Retna. It's different from L.A. Guns.

MC: I try to get inspiration. I go back through my old record collections and listen to things I haven’t listened to for a long time and try to analyze why I liked it when I was sixteen, eighteen, twenty-five, or something. That’s what happens when you get old. You have lots of different age brackets where you can pull the experiences from. I was listening to a lot of old pre-punk music, pub rock music like Dr. Feelgood, Ian Dury and the Blockheads, Nick Lowe, Rockpile, and all that, so there was lots of inspiration. It's easy to emulate the kind of music you like.

People don’t even know about a lot of that stuff, or they’ve forgotten about, or it was never on a level that people could really pin on anybody, so it was a good source to rediscover. Eras like the pub rock era, the punk rock era, the post-punk era, and the Goth era . . . all of those musical movements are never going to happen again.

It’s just too convoluted and too fragmented now for anything like that to happen again. The world is different, but it’s very important, because those were milestones in musical development. It’s important that people follow that history and understand those threads, because that’s what makes it good. It’s unique and the fact that it will never happen again is kind of lends itself more importance to that era.

What’s great these days is that you can go on YouTube and see all of the old footage of old performances by all of the groups. It’s really amazing that you can dial up some real archival footage of all these great heroes that you wouldn’t have seen back in the day because it would never be broadcast on TV, and people would always covet all of these old films and things. So it’s inspiring. I would hope and imagine—but maybe it doesn’t happen—that it would inspire the youthful generation to get into those styles of music. Unfortunately, I don’t see a lot of that happening, which is kind of baffling. There’s no accounting for taste, is there?

JC: What type of model of guitar have you played? Do you use the same model in all three bands or is it different in each band? 

MC: I mostly use Telecaster and Gretsch. With Burning Retna, I used the big hollow body. I like hollow bodies. (A hollow-body electric guitar has a sound box and one or more electric pickups. These guitars were designed in the thirties to be as loud as big bands and an orchestra.) With the Brutalists, I'm mostly using Telecasters.

JC: Well, the other thing I want to talk about is the music industry. It’s very different with the Brutalists than it was when you were doing L.A. Guns. What’s your feeling on the change?  You were talking about the record deal was the big thing, but now getting a record deal isn’t the biggest thing. 

MC: At  least you can make better music now because your goal isn’t the big payoff because that’s not going to happen. So you’re more or less making music from a more sincere motivation, I guess. There isn’t that big end game or anything, at least not for people like us. So it’s just making music that sounds good and from your experience. You can be discerning enough not to put out crap, or put out something that some other entity wants you to put out because they want to get it on MTV, or something like that. That doesn’t happen anymore, and that’s refreshing in terms of making music that’s good, you know? But unfortunately, with the internet and everything, there’s the other side of the coin. Everything is so fractionalized that it’s hard to get mass attention.

JC: What other plans, besides touring, do the Brutalists have?  

MC: Right now we just have some club dates. We’re working on a new video for the second single, “Price On Your Head.” So that should be coming out in a month or so. That’s the immediate plans.

JC: I guess just give me your feelings on your musical journey. From the time you did L.A. Guns to Burning Retna and then the Brutalists. What are your reflections on that?

MC: Well, at one point, I tried to leave it and I couldn’t. It's just something that you have to do. It kind of gets underneath your skin and you can’t leave it alone. I’ve explored other things, but nothing’s more enjoyable and satisfying than playing music in front of an audience because of the immediate response. People will clap their hands. If they don’t like you, they’ll throw something at you. So you know if you’re doing something right or not. It’s the immediacy of it, I think. It's the most rewarding thing.

Mick Cripps (2019)